For most musicians, mastering a new lick or tune now and then is rewarding enough. And if any of us are lucky enough to grow beyond licks into a personal style that others applaud as unique, or help to form a band that develops its own influential sound, then we feel especially blessed. But Pete Wernick has "been there, done that," and these days has higher goals. Being a creative master of the five-string in one of the freshest-sounding bands in bluegrass history was not enough. His main response to the "demise of the Rize," rather than merely recapitulating his prior successes, has been to push bravely into new territory.
Well, it would be new territory for most of us. For Pete, the musical dimension known as synthesis is actually familiar turf. He visited here with a flute player fifteen years ago on his first solo album. Later, he journeyed back with a phase shifter on some of his original tunes. He extended his musical explorations as two of the eight characters in a multiple personality stage show that never failed to please thousands of fans of either band, Hot Rize or Red Knuckles. And he continues to maintain a multi-dimensional musical career as (1) a featured sideman for various performers, most notably Jody Stecher, Kate Brislin, Jeff White and Chris Thiles, (2) as the world's favorite banjo teacher, (3) as half of a fine traditional style duo with wife and partner Joan, (4) as a producer and song writer, (5) as president of IBMA, (6) as erstwhile promoter of the hottest young talent in bluegrass, and (7) even still as a member of rare Hot Rize reunions.
But the eighth and clearest example of his creativity was sampled on his second solo project "On A Roll," and comes to full expression on the recent Sugar Hill release "I Tell You What!" This collection of original tunes and arrangements is the work of Pete's talented and daring band known as The Live Five. The music is a blend of the banjo, bass and three other instruments usually associated with jazz or Dixieland: drums, vibes and clarinet. In Pete's mind, and the minds of their growing cadre of fans, this instrumental array is perceived as wonderfully compatible with the rhythmic and melodic qualities of bluegrass.
Creative though he is, Pete is also surprisingly conservative about promoting his original work. Ever the aesthetic diplomat, Pete is very sensitive to the acceptance of two groups of the toughest musical critics in the world -- traditional bluegrass fans, and hardcore jazz afficionados. He is modestly hopeful that a good share of each will hear the natural fit of these instruments and playing styles with the essence of even the most traditional tunes. He would like to gain the Live Five a regular spot on the stages of bluegrass and jazz festivals around the country. Once you hear the quality and spirit of the LF's playing, you'll agree that he surely should. Dr. Banjo is also an accomplished student of the music he loves best. He knows that his efforts were preceeded by the musical insights and experiments of other forward-thinking players before him. In the following interview, done with Pete in June of this year, we started out by discussing these influences and the odyssey of the LF as they converged into a working unit.
BNL: Donald Nitchie told me a story about Earl Scruggs playing with saxophone player King Curtis, and I thought that might be a fitting place to start a history of your musical ideas for the Live Five.
PW: Well, my biggest influence as a banjo player is Earl Scruggs, for all the reasons that everyone givesÑtaste, tone, timing, touch, tunes. I still worship his playing, and can totally recharge myself and re-energize my efforts to get the best sound out of the instrument by just listening to some of his stuff. Now Earl, in 1960, met King Curtis when they were both working on a TV program about American folk music. King Curtis was a saxophone player in a soul band. He and Earl started jamming, and Earl was amazed that he could make music with a horn player and have it sound so good. This experience left a big impression on him. He talks about it as a turning point which eventually led to the breakup of Flatt and Scruggs, because he realized that there was more to what the banjo could do than what he was playing in a bluegrass context.
BNL: That's a pretty significant insight.
PW: Well, that's the way he refers to it. It wasn't that he suddenly hated F? or anything like that. It's just that he realized there was more that he could be doing. One time he mentioned to me that he just loved Pete Fountain's clarinet played and that he would love to make a record with Pete Fountain. I forget whether that was before or after I had actually started the LF, but I remember also listening to Pete Fountain and saying to myself, "This guy is playing bluegrass on a clarinet!" I also listened over the years to the vibes playing of Gary Burton and loved the fluidity of his playing. It so happens that one of Gary Burton's earliest records, made in the 60's when he was a teenager, has Sonny Osborne playing on the title cut called Tennessee Firebird. The tune started off almost bluegrass-y, with Sonny playing a roll, and then it went very much in a jazzy direction and the banjo wasn't really heard from by the end. But that must have planted the seed in my head, "Yes, you could try these things.Ó
I've always imagined things...there are other things I've heard...like, for instance, take the Staple Singers gospel group. Sometimes they get into a certain kind of rhythm and I think, "Oh, man, a banjo roll would sound great with this!Ó, and I try playing along with their records. There's a Stevie Wonder song that I remember trying to play along with. It's just that the banjo roll to me is this really cool thing! I've played with Cajun bands and stuck in a banjo roll, and also in Dixieland bandsÑyou know, just in informal jamming situations. I always thought of it as a novelty, but you eventually have to face the important question, "Is this fun just because I have never heard it before, or is it fun because it's good music and would stand the test of time?" The only way to find that out for sure is to try and play it for a while and see if you have avenues to go down or not. And if those musical avenues sound valid and not merely like a novelty, then you have something. For me, the phase shifter on the banjo passed the test. I also tried using the flute on some tunes on my "Dr. Banjo Steps Out" record. So when it came to putting the Live Five together, it basically started with me bumping into a drummer, Kris Ditson, who had played with Breakfast Special [with Tony Trischka, Andy Statman et al in the 70's]. He had played really great bluegrass rhythms with brushes on a standard drum kit. I loved the way he reinforced the bluegrass rhythm and charged it up without interfering with it in any way. Other drummers I've heard have tended to step on the banjo roll and almost deaden it with too much bass drum and so on. I was fortunate enough to run into him in a local music store in the late 80's and it turned out he had moved to the Boulder area to live. That's what led to the Live Five. The two of us started jamming and pretty soon I was saying, "Gee, do you know any clarinet players? Do you know a vibes player?" I was just in the mood to try some experiments.
One day we got five people on those instruments all together in the same room, and they were the same guys who became the Live Five. I showed them a couple of basic tunes and they played them real well. Then I worked with them in something of a bluegrass orientation in terms of the types of phrases they might play and the way we deal with the rhythm. Eventually it came time to give the style of music that was emerging from this experiment a name. I thought of all kinds of variations on the term Bluegrass. It is basically bluegrass played on some different instruments than you would find in the usual bluegrass band. And most of the tunes we are playing are about as bluegrassy as we are capable of. But it doesn't sound just like bluegrass because of what the instruments are. BNL: Let me ask you something about that. The tunes that were included on the "On A Roll" album certainly have the sound of inventiveness about them. But in this new project, I hear a higher level of consolidation. There's more bold, interactive playing from the players, and it's less apologetic, if you will. It seems like the five of you have started really having fun with this. Is that the case?
PW: Well yes, it is definitely fun. For one thing, the sessions that were done for the "On A Roll" album were recorded in October of 1992. At that point, the Live Five had only been playing together for a few months, and had performed in public maybe a grand total of once. By the time we recorded "I Tell You What," it was almost four years later, and we had played and performed together a whole bunchÑeven at some pretty big bluegrass festivals. We had gone through some of what all bands go through, that process of doing more of something if it works and less it if doesn't. Also, pondering the idea a bit, David Grisman has been a big influence on me. I mean that in the sense of having an all instrumental band and in putting together musical elements that work well together but have not usually been associated with each other before.
For tablature byPete Wernick on the net, go to John Lawless's AcuTab Publications site
Continued in Banjo Newsletter Vol. XXIII-11, September 1996