Terry Baucom

Introduction to interview by Ira Gitlin

Most longtime observers of the bluegrass scene will be as astonished as I was to learn that Terry Baucom has never appeared before on the cover of this publication. His powerful banjo playing, after all, has driven the sound of some of the most prominent bands of the 1970s, '80s, and '90s. While not a ground breaking innovator like Earl Scruggs, Bill Keith, or Béla Fleck, Terry Baucom is nevertheless one of the most influential and imitated banjo stylists of the past generation.

As the 1970s rolled in, bluegrass fans were heatedly debating the merits of the "traditional" and "progressive" approaches. But in the middle of the decade, southern baby boomers were pioneering a third stream. This new sound featured a streamlined, almost aggressive rhythm (usually with electric bass); extra-smooth vocal trios; and an eclectic repertoire that mixed songs from classic bluegrass, Nashville country, and rock. None of these elements were new to bluegrass; what was new was the total package -- bold, hip, and sophisticated enough to appeal to younger listeners, but with a distinctly country sensibility and grounding in bluegrass basics that tradition-minded fans could appreciate, too.

That new southern sound has evolved into today’s bluegrass mainstream. One of the earliest bands to put it all together was Boone Creek. In 1975 Terry Baucom, then 22 years old. formed the group along with Ricky Skaggs, Wes Golding, and Jerry Douglas. They stayed together for about two years, releasing two albums, "Boone Creek" and "One Way Track." A few years later Terry was establishing the banjo’s sound in Doyle Lawson’s then-new group, Quicksilver, which for many remains the archetypal contemporary mainstream bluegrass band. (Sugar Hill Records recently re-released the first two Quicksilver albums on a single CD, entitled "The Original Band.")

If his career had ended there, Terry would still be an important figure in bluegrass banjo history, but it didn't. In 1985 Terry, along with guitarist Jimmy Haley and bassist Randy Graham, left Doyle Lawson and joined up with mandolinist Alan Bibey to form the confusingly named New Quicksilver, which lasted through 1987. Toward the end of 1990 he teamed with fellow Quicksilver alumni Russell Moore and Ray Deaton in IIIrd Tyme Out. In 1993 Terry and original Quicksilver bassist Lou Reid started Caroline. And recently the old New Quicksilver hit the road again under the name BlueRidge. (Jimmy Haley has since been replaced by Wayne Winkle.) Sugar Hill Records released their debut CD, "Common Ground," earlier this year.
On paper -- for example, in the AcuTab transcriptions book devoted to his music—Terry's playing doesn’t look too different from, say, J.D. Crowe's (although he often uses his index finger to pick strong notes where most players would use their thumbs). His distinctiveness and influence lie in his sound. Terry's playing is marked by Uzi-like timing, uncommonly dynamic 3-2 pull-offs, and the kind of punchy, in-your-face attack that has led some Virginia legislators to propose a mandatory waiting period for prospective Stelling purchasers. (Hey, just kidding, Geoff.)

Faced with such relentlessly macho playing, I confess I half-expected Terry Baucom the man to be arrogant and overbearing. My fears were laid to rest the moment he greeted me graciously outside his home in Monroe, North Carolina, a few miles from his birthplace. Inside, it was cozy and up to date, with a well-stocked CD rack and glass cases displaying Terry's watch and knife collections. Outside, the cabin’s weathered woodwork and tin roof offer a glimpse at what the area looked like when Terry was growing up, before the suburbs of the nearby city of Charlotte began encroaching. It’s a fitting home for a man whose temperament and music blend down-home straightforwardness with worldly savoir-faire.

Ira Gitlin: How did you get started playing?

Terry Baucom: Well, my dad was into bluegrass as long as I can remember. He had Hank Williams, Sr. records and a lot of Bill Monroe and some Flatt & Scruggs. I always liked Monroe really well. I think the first album we ever owned actually was “I’ll Meet You In Church Sunday Morning” -- Bill Monroe gospel. And I seen “The Beverly Hillbillies” one day on TV and it just knocked me out. I immediately wanted a banjo for Christmas. My dad and mother were really supportive. I mean, I practiced hours in the house and my mother never said a word. Dad helped me get the first instrument and later on helped me get a really good instrument. So they played a big part.

BNL: Yo must have been about ten years old then, but you’d been hearing bluegrass for several years. Why did it take so long for you to get around to playing yourself?

TB: Well, if you notice on Bill Monroe's stuff, especially on the gospel album, there was a lot of quartets with guitar and mandolin. You might hear a banjo once in a while, but Monroe featured really strong fiddle playing; the banjo was always kind of in the background. Right after that [hearing The Beverly Hillbillies], Dad got a lot of Flatt & Scruggs; he'd seen that I had an interest in the banjo. So then is when my fever really hit.

BNL: Does your father play?

TB: Yes he does. He played guitar, and I played in a band with him for several years before I ever thought about doing this for a living. My grandfather was a clawhammer banjo player and my great-grandfather played fiddle. Dad, he knew a couple of tunes on the banjo. He showed me what he could, but he didn't really know the three-finger roll, so my roll was all wrong. A distant cousin of my dad's -- Bill Simpson; he actually played a short stint with Bill Monroe -- was a really good Scruggs-style player. He set me down and showed me the right roll, and from then on, things starting coming together pretty quick.
Once I starting getting the right roll, Dad and myself would go to the old Union Grove Fiddlers' Convention, and we'd hit Galax, and I began seeing good banjo players around, like A.L. Wood, [who] had a pretty hot band around Carolina.

BNL: Is that how you met Jimmy Arnold and Wes Golding and those guys?

TB: Yes, it was. Jimmy was from Fries, Virginia, and Wes was from Cana, Virginia, right there on the [North Carolina state] line. We went up there for a fiddlers' convention and I met Jimmy and Wes for the first time. That was probably mid to late '60s.

BNL: You were just a kid.

TB: Yea, I didn't even have a driver's license. Me and Jimmy sat around showing each other what we knew. He was already advanced; he was playing good even then, and he showed me a lot of stuff.

BNL: Did Boone Creek grow out of your acquaintance with Wes Golding?

TB: Actually, at the time I got to know Ricky Skaggs and Keith Whitley. They were with Ralph [Stanley] and I was playing fiddle with Charlie Moore. This was 1972, somewhere in there. I was a younger guy traveling with a bunch of older guys, and they [Ricky and Keith] were the same thing, so I got to hanging out with them and we got to talking about some day we might get us a band. I stayed with Charlie, and Keith stayed with Ralph, and Skaggs, I think he was with the Country Gentlemen, but any time we'd see each other we’d hang out.

BNL: And Skaggs was the moving force behind Boone Creek?

TB: Yeah, definitely.

BNL: When you were playing fiddle with Charlie Moore, did you wish you were playing banjo instead?

TB: Well, at that time I'd played banjo for a few years, and I loved it, but me and Dad had been friends with this older guy that played fiddle. He would show me things, and I really worked on it hard. It wasn't long after, a friend of mine that had played banjo with Charlie Moore -- his name was Frankie Belcher -- said, “Man, you're getting good on the fiddle. If you want a job, I know Charlie real well; I'll get you an audition.” I got the job and kind of forgot about the banjo for a while. I never did play banjo from there on until Boone Creek.

BNL: But you must have kept your chops up.

TB: Oh, sitting a round the house, but nothing like rehearsing every day. I was originally slated to play fiddle with Boone Creek. That kind of changed around: I went back on the banjo, and now I'm glad I did, because I'd rather be known as a banjo player than as a fiddle player now.
We all got together in late '74, but '75 was when we really come out and started playing and recording. We actually finished “One Way Track” when we already knew we were breaking up -- we had about half of it done. That was probably '77, cause it was then that we did go our separate ways.

BNL: Had Doyle Lawson already chosen you for Quicksilver by then?

TB: Not at that time. I moved back to Charlotte. Most of '77 and just about all of '78 I was doing freelance and teaching. Doyle called me in early '79. I remember meeting Doyle for the first time when he was with J.D. Crowe down at the old Camp Springs festival [in the early 1970s]. I told him I played a little fiddle and a little banjo. You know how it is, how a younger guy will go up and talk to an older guy.

BNL: There hasn't been much time when you weren't in a steady band.

TB: Between Boone Creek and Quicksilver, and also between New Quicksilver and IIIrd Tyme Out, was the only time I was never actually out there. When Boone Creek broke up, Doyle was still going real strong with the [Country] Gentlemen, so there wasn't the opportunity I was looking for. I had some offers, but I said, “I'm gonna hold out and see what comes along.” Each time I did that, I'm glad I did because it paid off both times. I was waiting for the right thing.

BNL: What's your main banjo these days?

TB: A Stelling Sunflower. I've been playing it since July 5 of 1997. It's a great instrument. I really couldn't ask for anything better.

BNL: Didn't you play a Rich & Taylor not too long ago?

TB: Right. I got that while I was still with IIIrd Tyme Out. I played it the whole time I was with Lou [Reid], and actually played a few shows on that one with BlueRidge, until one day I went to visit Geoff [Stelling]. He had just finished that banjo -- a beautiful banjo, curly maple -- and I said, yeah, I want to endorse. I had endorsed for him before, and I had played a Stelling Master Flower back when I first went with IIIrd Tyme Out.

BNL: You also used an old parts Gibson when you were with Boone Creek and Quicksilver, right?

TB: Yeah, that was like a ‘67 RB-250. Snuffy Smith put me a neck on it and put a good wood rim inside and really made it into a good thing.

BNL: So there's not much about it that's original except for the metal parts! I can really hear the differences among those banjos on your recordings -- especially the Rich & Taylor.

TB: It’s a different sound, it sure is. They had the intentions of building something as close to the old Gibson sound as you could get, and they did a good job of it, but I think the workmanship on a Stelling has not been topped. Geoff cuts no corners. A lot of the time, you know, these builders will build a custom thing, but I didn't want Geoff to do that. He said, “This one's just come off the line,” and I loved it and that’s what I’m playing now.

BNL: Do you find yourself playing differently on the different banjos?

TB: It wouldn't be so much playing as it would be the setup. On the Rich & Taylor you could play like two or three months and not have to tighten the head, because the looser head would make it sound more like a Gibson. On Geoff's I have to keep that right all the time; I can tell when it's getting a little loose. I use the same Snuffy Smith bridge -- 11/16" and spacing just a little bit wider than Crowe -- and my action is not as high on the Stelling as it was on the R&T. That'll make you play a little bit different. Raising the strings'll let you play harder and louder, but on the Stelling you get such volume, you don't have to run it as high as on the others.

BNL: You always sound like you’re picking hard. I heard a story that once you kicked off a song so hard, you knocked the bridge out of place and had to play the whole song out of tune like that.

TB: [Chuckle] I have played it out of the string groove before. I was probably playing too hard. If we're playing on a sound system and it's not set really good, where you can hear yourself, I'll play too hard sometimes. Back in the Doyle days I did play harder than I do now, but I was running a higher action.

BNL: Heavier strings, too?

TB: I'm using D'Addario strings -- 10, 11, 13, 20, and 10 on the fifth. Back when I was with Doyle I used 11, 12, 13, 20.

BNL: In your AcuTab book you tried to explain how your calluses and nails help you get such powerful 3-2 pull-offs, but I couldn't quite tell what you meant. Could you give it another try, please?

TB: If you’ve got a good callus [on your left hand middle finger], and your nail's just right -- really smooth there -- you can feel the nail help do the pull-off. You don't actually hook the string with your nail; you don't want it where you're making a real obvious sound. You just want to get a good clean flick, and that nail helps give more power than if your nail was real short.

BNL: I tell my students that a long nail can act like a retaining wall, stiffening the soft, fleshy fingertip.

TB: Yeah, it stiffens it. It’s hard to explain.

BNL: Another thing that struck me in the AcuTab book was how often you'll repeat a right-hand finger, like a middle finger on the first string, or a thumb on the fourth string, instead of getting the second note with a hammer-on or a pull-off. Is that hard for you? Does it limit your speed on those licks?

TB: There's a line. Once you get to that line, don't go across it; it's too fast. You can do that at a good medium tempo, but if it's really fast, and it gives you trouble, then you don't need to be doing that, because it'd only hurt the sound of the break.

BNL: Well, you certainly can do it a lot faster than I can! Which reminds me -- I heard once that on the first Quicksilver album, you played Shady Grove at 190 beats per minute or something like that.

TB: I've heard that before; I don't know how true that was. [Note: the actual tempo is slightly less than 180 bpm -- still pretty swift!] I tell you what, the way I can play tunes that fast -- see, we were playing a lot with Doyle, and we decided we'd work that song up, ‘cause every band needs a really hot fast tune they can end a show with. When we started doing it, none of us could play it that fast, but the more you do something on stage, the better it's gonna be. I was conditioned for that, where now I'm not used to doing Shady Grove. Right now we [BlueRidge] always play Train 45, and Randy sings it. I have no trouble with that because I've been conditioned for that tune. I've got a tune with Ronnie Bowman [Jailhouse Blues, from “The Man I’m Tryin’ To Be”], and it was so fast, and I'd never heard it before I went into the studio. Before I could record it, I had to find out what I couldn’t play. See, I was maybe trying to do too much at such a fast speed.

BNL: Are there certain licks that you feel are distinctively your own?

TB: Maybe a few.

BNL: Like that bluesy thing on the third and fourth strings. A few years back I was hearing that everywhere, and one guy I know called it “the Baucom roll.”

TB: I did it on IIIrd Tyme Out's Lower on the Hog. I always pretty much play straight melody, so that run just happened to be part of the melody of the song. It wasn't like I was trying to create a run where everybody'd say, “Yeah, that's Baucom.” I just played the melody and then people started associating me with the run.
BNL: Béla Fleck did something similar on that “Dreadful Snakes” album in 1983, but not exactly the same.

TB: Uh huh. I like his playing. He knows so much stuff; he's amazing.

BNL: Have you written any banjo tunes of your own?

TB: I've got a couple of instrumentals I play with a bunch of guys around here -- we jam maybe once a week. I've never really pushed them, not actually played them on stage before. But if I ever do my own thing I'll be pulling one of them out to go on something like that. I've talked with [Rebel Records chief] Dave Freeman. He's told us, any time Al [Bibey] or myself wants to do our own project, just let him know. One of the instrumentals that I wrote -- I don't even have a name for it -- but this little part of a song got into my mind and I couldn't get it out. When I got my banjo out and started playing it, I said, “Well, I need to add a little something here and there.” It's a pretty hard-driving thing in A chord, fits right with my style, just more or less a jam song. I've messed around with a couple of things in C, a little more laid back, but I've never really set down to write a song. If something comes to me I'll just do it and try to remember it. It's hard to sit down and say, “I'm gonna write an instrumental” and come up with something different that is good, you know. I think that's a hard way to go about it.

BNL: You're mostly thought of nowadays as a Scruggs-style player. I bet some people would be surprised to hear the melodic licks you used to throw in on the Boone Creek and early Quicksilver stuff.

TB: Yeah, I was more into that then. I didn't do a lot of it, but every once in a while I'd do something that I thought would make the song sound better. I'm not sure why I got away from that, but I did do more of that kind of thing.

BNL: The whole band sound was different, too. There was a stronger bounce, I think, and the electric bass was very busy and notey. Most contemporary mainstream bands today have a straighter rhythm, and some of them have gone back to the acoustic bass.

TB: It is a different sound. I know exactly what you're saying. The older you get, you start changing your thing just a little bit.

BNL: You've said you try to play the melody when soloing, but there are lots of ways to bring that out on the banjo. How do you decide what approach to take?

TB: Well, for example, we’re working on stuff right now. We've got new songs and I haven't heard them much, so I'll just play through a break and we'll make a tape. When I get home I'll put that on and listen to what I did and begin to get the real melody in my head. I may use some of what I did there, and I might not, but I'll set down and work out what best fits the song -- you know, whether it be a really simple straightforward break, or whether you would add a little something.

BNL: How about backup?
TB: When the trio is singing, I’ll roll along -- just a simple roll -- and accent at the end of the line or at the end of a chorus. It's something I really don't think about.

BNL: When you say “a simple roll”, you mean something without much left-hand activity.

TB: Not much; you just run down your fourth string [slide on the fourth string] and keep a good forward roll going. Keep it light, 'cause the emphasis then is on the singing.

BNL: You don't do much up-the-neck backup, do you?

TB: Not very much. I used to do more with Doyle. Sometimes I'll go through phases where I'll do more of that, and then sometimes I won't. With a Dobro or fiddle, that is perfect backup stuff; when you don't have it, then you find yourself working a little harder to fill in. Like with Boone Creek, you had a five-piece group -- the Dobro would be chopping rhythm or doing something really nice. I love five-piece, but when you're playing in a four-piece band, you have to work harder.

BNL: Do you still teach?

TB: Yes, I do. Every Wednesday at The Fifth String over in Gold Hill, North Carolina. Most of my students are beginners. I teach a bit of fiddle, too, but on the banjo most of my students are learning straight-ahead Scruggs stuff -- start with Cripple Creek and go on from there. You have to really get into teaching; it's something you can't do if you don't want to be doing it. I like doing it, but I also like the student to do his part. I like for him to work on it so he and myself can see improvement.

BNL: One of my big problems is getting students to feel the timing. You know how a lick might have some rolling notes and just one or two longer notes, but some students will rush along and play them all at the same pace.

TB: The spacing is what they’re not hearing. I remember when I was just learning I'd tap my foot. If I couldn't tap my foot, I knew I was out of time. Dad was a good rhythm guitar player, so he helped me with my timing. I'd kick it off and if I'd get the least bit out, he'd say, “Hold it, we have to go back, you're going too fast” or “You're dragging right here.” Actually, he taught me how to listen.
You can get with a guitar player even if you're a beginner -- somebody that can hold time, don't have to do anything but play chords and hold time. I played off my dad in that situation. Now, my students, when they get to where they can play the song fast enough, I'll set down with a guitar. I let them get going, and then I'll come in. So I'll do more guitar with them the more they become familiar with what they’re doing.

BNL: When I walked in here today, you had a Django Reinhardt and Stephane Grappelli CD playing on the stereo. What else do you listen to?

TB: Well, I listen to bluegrass—I like to keep up with what’s going on—but I really do like jazz. There’s a good radio station in Charlotte; any time I’m in my car I’m listening to jazz. It’s 92.7—some old jazz or newer jazz. Sitting around here in the afternoon I’ll be bound to have Django and Grappelli on. I like Leon Redbone real well. I’ve got a CD of the Fairfield Four. You know, just all kinds of music.

BNL: Just recently I noticed that the harmony riff on Boone Creek's Sally Gooden was borrowed from Reinhardt and Grappelli's Honeysuckle Rose.

TB: [Chuckles] It sure it. Skaggs, he’s always been in Grappelli and [jazz violinist] Joe Venuti. But that kind of music's hard to find anymore. You never hear anything on the radio that sounds like that, hardly.

BNL: Before we turn off the tape recorder, is there anything else you’d like to say to BNL readers?

TB: Well, I tell you, I'm thankful that they would want to do an interview with me, and anybody that likes my playing, I'm glad they do.

Terry Baucom
E-Mail: Baucman@webtv.net